RE: GNUStep: An Apology for Announcing Donation of Proprietary Software to the Project

[JW]

At 05:30 PM 12/21/2001 -0600, you wrote:

>i'm curious about something (yes, genuinely curious) - i am a fan of
>opensource, and free software.  but i've also been working in the
>corporate world for quite a few years, so i'm a little out of touch.  

The conflict lies in the fact that VMware's code is not open source, therefore 
VMWare cannot be Free Software.

I pay for every copy of SuSE I install, but I don't _have_ to - I can download 
the source code for it for free -- legally free.

That a simplistic answer but that's the heart of the matter.

As a comparison, it would not be against GNU ideals to pay for a CD with bochs 
or Plex86 on it, because bochs and Plex86 source code is Free.


>my questions:
>1.  is it the position of GNU that all "paid-for" software is bad?  

No, see above.

>2.  is it ok to pay for the "service" that someone supplies (ie, hours
>of time and toil), rather than the finished product? 

"You have our Official Blessing and Permission to pay for service" 

(sorry, I just thought a funny question deserved a funny answer :-) )

> can someone be
>"paid" to write "opensource" or gnu software? i mean, rather, is that
>considered "legit"? 

Well let's see. Alan Cox is paid by RedHat to work on kernel development... 
...SuSE pays the salaries of several XFree86 and KDE developers.. Ximian pays 
Gnome people... the list could go on. 

>3.  the logical extension of this thing seems difficult to understand to
>me... the position that you should not buy software seems interesting to
>me...

But there is no such position.

> ie - don't buy the operating system, use the free one.  

Don't confuse Free (e.g. Freedom) with free ( $$$ )

>or help
>write the free one.  so far so good.  but how about the hardware?  

 From here down is mostly pointless per above answers.

>do we
>all need to use only free hardware?  how do we acquire such free
>hardware?  how about the firmware that runs much of the hardware?  does
>that need to be opensource as well?  
>
>adam, i understand why you are declining accepting the gift from vmware,
>and that it doesn't fit with the gnu paradigm, but i don't think it
>makes you a "dolt" :) 

Me neither.

> there are people who are wanting to contribute to
>gnustep who are not quite as committed to GNU in general - ie, they use
>windows (god forbid) and other paid-for software, but are also
>contributing to free software projects.  

Like me.

>i don't see anything wrong with
>that, personally, but that seems like an individual choice.

It is, as it most everything in this world.

>  getting the
>free licenses was a way to encourage those people to contribute and to
>test their code on multiple platforms without having to buy multiple
>machines, or dual boot them.  however, advertising the provider of those
>licenses doesn't fit with the free software motif.

Bingo. I wish is had not been announced to begin with, but I"m afraid the 
retraction may have added more coals to the fire.  I wonder how VMware feels 
about it all.


>i've used a trial version of vmware, and it is a very professionally
>written product, i've enjoyed using it.  i'm not willing to shell out
>$300 for it though :)  no matter how well advertised :)  if they drop to
>$50 though, then i'm in!  hey, i pay for games, so why not for some
>other random piece of cool software :)  its entertainment value as
>well... i pay for dvd's and movies and lots of other stuff...  
>
>let me close by saying:  my apologies if any of this post is offensive,
>i just haven't participated in many discussions on free software
>philosophy, so i'm missing the FSF/GNU points of how should software
>developers support themselves, when (if ever) is it okay to ask for
>compensation for software written (finished product), and when (if ever)
>is it okay to pay for software, hardware, services, or goods in general
>(not just software).  

try www.gnu.org and read some stuff. Educate yourself.

>please, feel free to take this offline and just reply to me if you want
>to educate me without spamming the list :))
>
>cheers,
>scott

----------------------------------------------------
Jonathan Wilson
System Administrator

Cedar Creek Software     http://www.cedarcreeksoftware.com
Central Texas IT     http://www.centraltexasit.com