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Re: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard


From: Daniel Santos
Subject: Re: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 19:07:46 +0000
User-agent: Icedove 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070329)

From a users perspective, (i've skimmed the user interface guidelines of the openstep spec) the simplicity of the UI, which includes the dullness of gray is great at centering the user on the task (Besides i like the way it looks). Don't have nothing against themes, as long as the next look stays (one of the reasons for using it).

As to slogans how is this ?
   Put your best to the test. GNUStep does the rest.

Daniel Santos

Nicolas Roard wrote:
On Nov 11, 2007 6:15 PM, Dr Tomaž Slivnik <address@hidden> wrote:
As to the look, is there a reason why Camaelon still isn't part of
the standard GNUstep distribution?  Yes, the default look is clean,
but it's clean and very 80s.  Nesedah is clean and modern, and
Narcissus is even cleaner.  Using GNUstep apps without Camaelon
feels like stepping through a time warp.
For what it's worth, I like the "very 80s" look. What's wrong with
the 80s look?

please... we went through that discussion hundreds of times. Just
accept for a fact that a vast majority of people dislike the NeXT
*look*, whatever the reason. While I like the OPENSTEP look, there is
no saying it does not look dated. Nice, but dated.

<snip a list of comments about OSX and the superiority of NeXT, all
things which really doesn't apply to gnustep per se>

Themability also comes with some pitfalls:

- it potentially makes the GUI design more complex, which means
buggier and more time-consuming/expensive to develop;

That's what Gorm is for. Seriously. Tell me why GUI design would be
more complex.
Some more work can be caused by color/tonality differences, but
nothing we can't work out.
As everything else, it's a tradeoff and to me the advantages a
magnitude more than the few disadvantages.

- there is a risk that, if not properly used, developers will develop
apps which only work / only work well with a particular theme - and
possibly different apps working well with different themes.

We are talking about themes -- nothing "active". The behaviour will not change.

I'd be more conservative in making claims we can so easily improve on
the NeXT original design. I've looked at some of the themes offered
in Camaeleon. They look interesting/OK. I personally prefer the NeXT
design.

I think a theming engine is useful; but I'm not convinced it's such a
great priority and I can see good reasons not to have it a part of
the standard distribution (see pitfalls above).

Let's be blunt: I don't care if GNUstep choose to have a new UI theme
by default,
although I really, really think it should. And it's not like you
wouldn't be able to switch back to the NeXT theme if you want.

What's important is to have a theme engine.

I don't even know why I _again_ try to discuss that, because it's
painfully obvious to me,
and because I know very well that nobody will really work on it
anyway, certainly not people that complains.
So I'll just shut up for a few months more until I'll again have some
free time to work on gnustep.






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