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Re: Emacs packages, GitHub and software freedom

From: Yoni Rabkin
Subject: Re: Emacs packages, GitHub and software freedom
Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2022 14:48:27 -0400
User-agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1.90 (gnu/linux)

Akib Azmain Turja <akib@disroot.org> writes:

> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>>> From: Akib Azmain Turja <akib@disroot.org>
>>> Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2022 22:17:37 +0600
>>> "Bozhidar Batsov" <bozhidar@batsov.dev> writes:
>>> > I think that's a very binary view of GitHub - it might be non-free,
>>> > but given the huge community it has amassed, it's almost suicidal for
>>> > projects to leave it, as they'd be reducing their contributor-base
>>> > significantly.  Projects that are hosted outside of GitHub get way
>>> > less contributions and I don't think the Emacs users would benefit
>>> > from this. I know that the people in FSF care a lot about freedom, but
>>> > I care more about building the best Emacs packages possible, even I
>>> > have to make some ideological compromises from time to time.
>>> This looks similar to saying, "It's suicidal to not use Copilot, because
>>> without it you have to do the programming yourself and decrease your
>>> productivity."
>>> Emacs, GCC, Guix, EMMS and many other projects use Savannah, and there's
>>> thousands of other popular projects, including some of the most
>>> successful ones, that are not using GitHub.  Are they falling behind?
>>> Your statement is contradicting your own blog post: "Firefox is the Only
>>> Alternative".[1]
>>> However, I must agree that projects on GitHub gets more activity.  But
>>> that's because most of the developers use (i.e. used by) that.  And
>>> that's why more people join GitHub, they are forced.  We must break this
>>> cycle.
>>> > Love it or hate it, GitHub helped a lot for the revival of the Emacs
>>> > package ecosystem. Especially when you compare this to the days of
>>> > EmacsWiki and SourceForge.
>>> Just like saying, "Windows has made using a computer easy, so I won't
>>> discourage people from using it."
>>> > I wouldn't take any steps to discourage package maintainers  from
>>> > using it.
>>> This way you are just worsening the situation.  (But you obviously have
>>> the freedom to do that.)  To increase the "contributor-base" outside
>>> GitHub, we have to convince maintainers to move away from GitHub.
>> Guys, this is quickly becoming off topic here.  Although the Subject
>> says "Emacs packages", the discussion has long ago ceased to be about
>> that, and you are now discussing GitHub, SourceForge, Savannah
>> hosting, etc.  Would you mind taking this to emacs-tangents?
>> Thanks.
> Sorry for that.  But the only thing I ask in this thread is what to do
> with GNU ELPA packages on unethical GitHub?  It's considered
> unacceptable for hosting any free software (including GNU software) by
> the Free Software Foundation.

Exactly, which is why I answered about Emms... an Emacs package. Is
there a mailing list to discuss the larger Emacs package world, as
opposed to Emacs proper?

   "Cut your own wood and it will warm you twice"

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