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Re: Someone start maintaining luddites.el

From: Yuan Fu
Subject: Re: Someone start maintaining luddites.el
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2021 00:06:17 -0800

> On Dec 28, 2021, at 11:05 PM, Po Lu <> wrote:
> Yuan Fu <> writes:
>> Probably only variable and faces are emulated, when possible. And I
>> don’t understand why you need to remember anything to use such a mode:
>> it removes changes. If anything, it should only allow you not need to
>> remember things.
> No, it means I will have to read not only NEWS but also the Antinews
> after each upgrade, and then decide which version of Emacs to have mine
> emulate.

Even if you don’t read NEWS, you know what the mode does: it keeps Emacs behave 
the same as it currently is. So you shouldn’t need to remember or read or 
understand anything. And again, if you don’t like it, you don’t have to use it. 
So I don’t think it adds any burden to you.

>>> Such a compatibility layer will probably have to be constantly updated
>>> as well to fit with changes in later versions of Emacs.
>> That’s not much work, the changes to default values of variables and
>> faces are not that much in each release.
> If my gut feeling is right, this feature will be used as an excuse to
> make more of those changes.

I think the effectiveness of this mode, in terms of support of adding changes, 
would be equivalent to “you can add a line of code to .emacs to revert it”. Ie, 
not much different from the status quo. It’s just AFTER the change is made, 
one’s life is easier if he decides that he don’t want any of that.

>> And we only need record the change in each release, reverting to
>> defaults of prior releases only need to concatenate the change in each
>> release together.
> What if a variable is made obsolete in the meantime?  Or if the list of
> understood meanings change?

If a variable is removed, we can’t help it. But if it is removed, there must be 
very good reason to do so and it must has been obsoleted for many years, ie, 
it’s due time. If it is just obsolete, resetting it shouldn’t hurt anything.

>> First, that solution is not very good: people have different opinions
>> of when default values are due.
> Then let's see which causes the smallest mob of people who complain.

I don’t quite understand that. What are you referring to as “which”?

>> Third, I don’t think adding this feature will make Emacs change
>> default values when they are not due. If anything, the mode only helps
>> people who don’t want Emacs to change: instead of adding code to
>> .emacs, now you only need to turn this mode on.
> How is changing a switch with custom different in principle from adding
> code to init.el?

They are equivalent, but a switch is more convenient. The whole point (I think) 
is that it’s equivalent to adding code to init.el, but more convenient: you 
don’t need to figure out what code to add, you don’t need to maintain the code, 
you don’t need to remember what that code does and why it is added, etc.

Do you agree with my claim that adding this feature will not make Emacs change 
default values when they are not due?


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