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Re: BendSpanner-engraver

From: Thomas Morley
Subject: Re: BendSpanner-engraver
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2016 23:00:37 +0200

2016-09-14 14:43 GMT+02:00 Marc Hohl <address@hidden>:

>> Something at the lines of:
> [...]
>> This is a very first shot, more a proof-of-concept...
> This is possible, but I don't think that shortcuts are sufficient here.

Well, we do have several shortcuts for well established features, but
when things get (very) complex/complicate they're sometimes not enough
and there's need to tailor something for the actual use-case.

In general I'd vote for those shortcuts, but to fall back to the basic
commands if needed.

> Some years ago I had long discussions on the devel list concerning the
> implementation of a string-bend-engraver (that would have had to be done in
> C++ at this time), especially with Carl Sorensen, and we came to the
> conclusion that a bend event is something that happens *to a certain
> string*, therefore it is possible to bend a string, keep it bent, bend
> another one, release it and then release the first bent string again.
> This is rather complicated stuff, but some guitarists do stuff of this kind
> ;-)

I partly disagree, you can bend a single string or an EventChord
(speaking lilypondish), meaning all strings are bended starting at the
same musical moment ending at another but same musical moment for all
This is supported already.

I think your example would require two TabVoices and now things are
already supported again:

\new TabStaff <<
  \new TabVoice {
BendSpanner.details.y-distance-from-tabstaff-to-arrow-tip = 3.2
        g'1\preBendHold \startBend a'1~ a'\stopBend\startBend g'\stopBend
  \new TabVoice {
BendSpanner.details.y-distance-from-tabstaff-to-arrow-tip = 0.8
        r1 g,1\startBend a,2\6\stopBend\startBend g,\stopBend r1

png attached

> [...]
>> I considered it already.
>> Though, the engraver mimics the behaviour of TextSpanner.
>> And you can't start a TextSpanner inside EventChord.
>> I didn't figure how to do it different.
> We discussed about that as well ;-) I tried to follow the slur engraver, but
> this is one of the more complicated engravers, so I finally gave up ;-)
> Technically speaking, the mimics of the slur engraver seem ideal if you see
> it as a per-string basis: you cannot have two simultaneous bends on one
> string, but you can bend each string independently.

Although true, I don't see why going for the features of slur-engraver
would help here.
At least I see no use case which couldn't be solved with multiple
TabVoices and for not simulaneous rhythms there _should_ be multiple
TabVoices, imho.

Though, as said before, I don't use TabStaff myself.
If so, I more look into historical tablatures for doing transcriptions
for the modern classical guitar.

So I may be wrong, scans of printed TabStaffs would help me a lot.

Additionally, I'm not sure, whether we _should_ make every style
available, though. My limited inside lets me think every tab-editor
creates his own style ad hoc and on the fly...

>> I have a suspicion about the slow down...
>> Will test as soon as I have some spare time, though it's a highly
>> complex and huge coding.
>> Sometimes I feel like touching the limits of my current coding skills.
>> Proceeding means to do all very carefully and thoroughly and _not_ in
>> any hurry ;)
> Of course! As already said, I was working on the concept of a
> string-bend-engraver for about 1 1/2 years or so, and the ideas and concepts
> are still (mostly) available. I'd be glad to help you with this task, but
> some private messages in German language could be perhaps more effective
> here ... ;-)

Thanks for the offer, I'll surely come back to it.
For know I'd like to have even more input of testers from the whole list.

> [...]
>> Although, guitar-player myself I never use TabStaff
>> rofl
> My pupils are fond of tablatures, easy available, easy to understand ...
> And trying to write down a contemporary guitar solo with normal staves only
> is a bit of a nightmare ;-)

As a side note, I once tried to teach classical guitar using tabs,
trying to make the access more easy for my students.
The result: they never bothered to learn reading notes. :((
Ofcourse you know, tabs _do_have disadvantages: choosing other strings
for fingerings require a _new_ tab , polyphonics are always difficult
to print. To mention the most prominent ones...


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