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Re: [Gnumed-devel] Carlos - Soap2 - design comments

From: Sebastian Hilbert
Subject: Re: [Gnumed-devel] Carlos - Soap2 - design comments
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:51:55 +0100
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On Wednesday 10 November 2004 02:19, Richard Terry wrote:
> This who debate typifies what goes on within gnuMed and why very little
> forward progress is made in the gui design. The current incarnation of gui
> design sucks big time.
> It is a source of never ending frustration and saddness for me that we have
> never reached a point of respecting each others abilities and learning to
> work as a team together. Despite constant statements that anyone can have
> whatever plugins they desire - the fact is that will never happen.
Yes it will. Compare Gnumed development to a child's growth. Gnumed is a baby 
right now. You can't speed up the development by simply agreeing on the 
babies career. It's a process. You don't just get over it. I can see no 
disrespect for each other's abilities. If you feel that way just because your 
ideas are not converted in code than think again. 

As for the GUI. Much code produced for Gnumed right now focuses on backend and 
middleware. My GUIs for example are mostly ugly hacks which need to be 
replaced. But that's not a priority for me. Period. I would to work with some 
GUI wiz to change that but the GUI coding will not be done by me. See where I 
am heading ?

So very much like Jim does a great job collecting information it could be your 
job to bug us about *changes* to existing GUIs. But don't expect us to throw 
over our own ideas right away. 
> Overall functionality and utility will be dictated by the ergonomics of the
> design. I note the interim jpg below and put forward these comments.
> Again, as doctors we don't (and not just me - this is observation on the
> ground of tens of dozens of GP's using computers) by and large 'go back' to
> a tree like list of encounters very often. Having this take up valuable
> workspace next to your input area's is a waste of screen real-estate - and
> deprives you of much peripheral information.
> Carlos - I'm not sure if you have read any of the philosophy behind my
> stuff - if not - look at
> Also - I knocked up a quick wxPython2.5.1 design a couple of months ago -
> much more flexible than 2.4 -  (havn't touched the keyboard really since 
> despite keeping an eye on the list) which illustrates a much more rational
> approach to overall design  - as you can see from the attatched png's I've
> dumped today, apart from the SOAP editor, I've just used some stock
> wxPython Demo examples to fill in the spaces, so you will have to use your
> medical imagination to fill medical data into this.
2.5/2.6 may very well be more flexible than 2.4 but that does not help Gnumed 
at all currently. We will stick to 2.4 at least until the major distributions 
ship wxwidgets 2.6. Karsten is on 2.4 , I am , Ian is ( I believe). Well 
these guys do most of the development work right now. So there is no point to 
switch to 2.6.
> Why in the hell can't we for once and for all give certain people
> responsibility for segments of gnumed - allow them a final say - and then
> just get on with it. 
Because that's exactly how FOSS does *not* work.
> Those who watch this list in the background - eg in  
> the AU university scene/governernment/medical defence organisations, have
> expressed privately to me at times their frustration at watching this
> process we have - and us getting nowhere fast.
That's their problem. Hopefully they will read this. I stopped to care about 
companies who wait for Gnumed progress. We have some of those in Germany , 
too. Call me arrongant but I have not seen them contributing a single line of 
code until now. 
> There are organisations in 
> AU who would like to contribute time/money to our effort, if only we could
> show some progress and unity. 
Bla, bla, money /time. How many times have I heard this one before. They try 
to manipulate you.

I have said this once before and I will tell you many times more if necessary. 
Whoever wants to change the current development has the option to start a 
company, hire some programmers and code like hell. You could even collect the 
money that apparently is thrown at you.

As far as I can see no such company has been formed as of now. I therefore 
assume that there is no need for it.
> The way things are moving here it could be in 
> a couple of years time that irregardless of the state of gnuMed it will be
> unusable for us in australia because of local legislation regarding
> requirements for medical records. If the project actually produced
> something, it could become part of that process, rather than being trashed
> by it.
I personally won't get involved in politics no matter how it would potentially 
benefit Gnumed.

BTW. My talk is cheap as well. I have not contributed to Gnumed in a long time 
so don't listen to me.

Sebastian Hilbert 
Leipzig / Germany
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