Re: [glob2-devel] We must do a game, not an engine

[Bradley Arsenault]

On 4/25/07, Cyrille Dunant <address@hidden> wrote:
> Well, yes, nice people stepped up after I complained that we would still need
> the maps.
>
> > Well exept you.
>
> This is incorrect. I complain that people keep subtly insulting nct and
> nuage's work, calling their code a mess and saying essentially that it need
> to be redone from scratch.

Well first of all, from reading the code, I've noticed that there once
was a simple, and usable design. But things have changed. People have
hacked in new features. There are new requirements on code that wasn't
designed to meet these requirements.

And as such, the new features that have been put there have
increasingly complexified the code. Coupled with the lack of good
documentation, I have every right to say the code is a mess. I am a
very critical person, but I offer reason why its a mess, and a more
maintainable alternative.

nct and nuage where learning C++ while doing glob2. I don't blame
them, and I don't name them when I say the code has become bad. And
there is allot more agreeable design in newer code they've wrote.
Infact there is a clear difference in style the code that was written
a long time ago and hasn't changed since, and the code that is brand
new.

The problem is that code that was written a long time ago with
primitive C++ design is well primitive C++ design, and it hasn't
changed. Instead new code has been written around it, and the
constantly changing requirements on old code that hasn't changed means
Glob2's code has become quite messy.

> I am trying to attract your attention to the fact that if you are here, today,
> contributing to glob, it is because we have a working codebase, and not a
> worthless pile of junk.

You have a furnace. It works. But its really old. No person in town
knows how to fix it. It works for now. If it breaks though, you have
no furnace, and you can't repair it.


> More than that, we have a game that is fun to play.
>
> > I don't reply of the rest of the mail.
> > There was no information in the rest of your mail anyway - only a lot
> > of aggression.
>
> I ressented a lot the remark that if the maps had been done once, they could
> be redone.
>
> The understatement was that obviously this is basically not technical stuff,
> and therefore not really important.
>
> A good map is good after a few hours of drawing, testing, redrawing,
> retesting.
>
> A good strategy game is good because it has many _perfect_ maps. Think
> Starcraft.
>
> So yes, I am angry, because I have the feeling that non-coding contributions
> are considered trivial.
>
> > And I don't understand how anyone here could be the cause of it.
>
> Because you are in essence saying that all that was before needs to be redone.
> Ergo, it is crap.

It has become crap. It was once good. But it has been slaughtered in
time. It needs to be redone. Requirements change. But the old code
hasn't.

> Note, that you are not saying that you would like this or that new feature,
> no, you say that the code is a mess. You have just described it as "refusing
> to clean up your room, only much worse."
>
> So yes, I am angry, because of the understatement that all previous (old) code
> is crap.
>
> > I was about to congratulate us of the fine and hard work this month.
> > Doing the releases, tests, bugfixing, wiki-rewriting, animations and
>
> The releases highlighted massive problems in the process (well, better during
> the alphas than later on). So yes, I suppose we could congratulate ourselves
> for having had a couple releases :)
>
> And the animations have usability problems (well, 50% alpha could be a fix).
>
> > repositorial change while some core rewriting takes place is incredible.
>
> You should thank nct for doing that on your behalf. I am not certain that it
> will improve much the development process, but if it creates goodwill, it
> probably was worth it.
>
> > And don't forget the two servers we changed.
> > Hopefully this will not again turn out to become a flame thread.
>
> It _is_ a flame thread. And would you please stop trying to extinguish
> perfectly good flames.
>
> --
> -- Cyrille Dunant
> -- EPFL-IMX-LMC


--
Really. I'm not lieing. Bradley Arsenault.