Re: [Gnu-arch-users] [OT] facism gaining ground in US

[Pierce T . Wetter III]

On Jul 12, 2004, at 3:05 PM, Frank T. Pohlmann wrote:

> >   You're not going to like hearing this, but a
> > widespread perception in
> > the US is that Europe wants to both not spend the
> > money to be relevant,
> > while retaining veto power on US actions.
>
> Nobody has veto power on US actions. I find it
> interesting that the US media still believe that this
> European-American divide is about telling the US what
> to do. How quaint.

  The US media believes the European-American divide is about
Iraq/Bush, its the US foreign policy establishment feels its about
unilateralism. The pro-Europe faction feels hamstrung, because Europe
has been becoming more isolationist lately according to their budgets. 
Perhaps thats in response to US actions, but that's just making things 
worse.

 Europe is less willing to spend money on the rest of the world because
the US isn't involving them.
The US is less willing to involve them because they aren't spending 
money on the rest of the world.

> That's not
> > going to happen.
> > If Europe wants to be consulted, they'll have to
> > spend the money.
>
> They do. They prefer, however, to spend it on projects
> not necessarily connected to bombers, tanks and
> shooting unarmed civilians. I apologize on behalf on
> all Europeans that we are actually trying to use
> different means. So sorry.

  You didn't read everything I wrote, I specifically said it would be 
ok to spend money on aid instead of the military. The US spends a lot
of money as a % of GDP on the combination of military power and foreign 
aid. Several countries in Europe don't even match our spending on 
foreign aid.
However, I specifically said that if Europe doesn't want to spend it on 
guns, then they should actually spend it on aid. Europe in general 
spends
a lot less as a % of GDP then the US does on foreign aid.
> In
> > the debates I see in Foreign Affairs, the pro-Europe
> > faction is getting
> > increasingly frustrated because more and more, when
> > Europe shows up, it
> > doesn't make any difference.
>
> Nobody makes any difference to the US. The whole world
> is frustrated with the US. Europe is just one part of
> a very pissed-off world.

  To the US, we get either complaints about not getting
involved, or complaints that we are. That's not unique to
Europe, the same domestic politicians who were complaining
about Bush going into Iraq accused him of dragging his feet
on Liberia...

 Anyways, if you want to really know what the US is thinking
don't take my word for it whatever you do, subscribe to Foreign
Affairs. (www.foreignaffairs.org).

 Pierce