Re: Update CoC adapted from upstream 2.1 (instead of 1.4)

[Thorsten Wilms]

On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 08:47:11 +0100
Tissevert <tissevert+guix@marvid.fr> wrote:

> And, how exactly can "sex characteristics" be involved in the kind of
> interactions we're having in this community ?

For the most part, with the notable exception of conferences, one could
wonder the same about age, body size, visible or invisible disability,
ethnicity, socio-economic status, nationality, personal appearance,
race, caste, color, religion. All things you may never learn about of
people who you interact with online. Even gender expression just makes
it due to gender-associated names and pronouns.

The list ist not meant to be of characteristics that a sane person
might care about. It has to include the insane. Having seen derogatory
comments about Cis-people, I don’t think discrimination based on actual
equipment is that far out.


> If someone here is able to
> discriminate against someone else based on their "sex characteristics"
> (whatever that means) independently from their "gender identity", then I'm
> ready to bet their problems doesn't belong in the Guix community and its usual
> scope and had rather be discussed within the legal framework instead.

Critics of CoCs would point to the legal framework for nasty cases,
anyway.


> Also, why isn't this message part of the other thread[1] ? How is this
> discussion any different ? Am I missing something obvious here ? If so I am
> truly sorry but I re-read Zimoun's message a couple times and I still fail to
> see the difference with Taylan's patch.

The difference is the connection to upstream changes. I think this is
interesting, as Taylan has been accused of trying to get “sex” in behind
the back of the original author. Also, there likely was a lot
discussion with trans-people involved before the change was made there.


It seems like some people here take the inclusion of sex
characteristics to imply that sex characteristics would matter
in a way that denies people with not-matching equipment their
heartfelt identity. Anyone can decide for themselves that their gender
identity and expression shall not depend on what they have been born
with, but you do not get to decide that for all of mankind. The
audience of the CoC does not have a uniform understanding of these
matters.


-- 
Thorsten Wilms <t_w_@freenet.de>